[BUG] Seal of Command/Judge of Command still not working. data.

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hammered
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[BUG] Seal of Command/Judge of Command still not working. data.

Postby hammered » Tue May 03, 2016 11:57 am

Hello, guys!

First of all, thank You all for the hard work, I know You did apply some fixes to this an year ago but lately I've had the time to do my casual yearly checks on spell damage coefficients. It seems I am either EXTREMELY unlucky or somewhere along the code lines numbers do not match the blizzlike values of our Seal of Command procc damage and Judge of Command.

I decided to make a thread and not post a reply on the Bug Tracker - Paladin Bugs, since I have a lot of data written down and doubt I can make it within the character number limitations of a reply.

So, here are the blizzlike spell damage coefficients as of 1.12.1 for SoC/JoC:
20% Seal of Command
29% Seal of Command (only with +holy damage bonuses)
43% Judgement of Command

What that means is that with, let's say 100 Damage and healing on your gear, You should be getting around 43 more points of damage on Your Judgement spell (When You've had Seal of Command applied), Your proccs should be dealing 20 more points of damage than Your 70%Weapon Damage calculation, and if You have JotC applied on the target (in my case it adds up to 198 Holy spell damage since I have the improved talent and the libram) You should be having 85 additional damage on Judgement and 57 on proccs.

Now here is all the data I've gathered over an hour while hitting my alt - take notice, armor does not influence judgements and proccs so the deficits I've encountered can not be explained.

Judgement of Command

Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy, instantly causing 169 to 187 Holy damage, 339 to 373 if the target is stunned or incapacitated.

We will be taking into account only non-crit, non-Vengeance numbers. 169-187 means the approximate damage is around 178.

1. Judge of Command with +156 SPD Gear


I've put on some of my spell damage gear, consisting of 5 parts T2 and D2 Shoulders. In total I have 156 +spell damage. In theory 43% of that spell damage should be applied straight to my judgement. 0.43x156=67 min. 169+67=236 max. 187+67=254 approx. 247

Results: 215 - 208 - 203 - 205 - 209 - 204 - 205 - 217 - 218 - 203 - 209 - 208 - 219
Conclusion: 203 - 219 damage.
Maximum damage increase - approx. 30! :thumbdown: In theory: 67!

2. Judge of Command, with Judgement of the Crusader applied prior, with +156 SPD Gear.


I've used Judgement before the testing session, applying JotC (+198 Holly SPD) on the target and have turned to SoC max. rank to judge.
0.43x156=67 0.43x198=85 67+85=152 min. 169+152=321 max. 187+152=339

Results: 298 - 295 - 331 - 310 - 311 - 291 - 305 - 307 - 291 - 295
Conclusion: 291 - 331 damage.

3. Judge of Command, with JotC, +156 Gear, +10% Holy Damage Sanctity Aura

Decided to actually add the Sanctity Aura in the calculation to show how it applies the missing 30 (approx.) points of damage.

Results: 337 - 322 - 320 - 332 - 330 - 337 - 328 - 322 - 332 - 330 - 329 - 328 - 329 - 335

4. Judge of Command, with JotC, +156 Gear, and pop'd Zandalarian Hero Charm (+204 SPD)

In this test run, I'm applying JotC, waiting a few seconds applying SoC and using ZHC (204 SPD) to start judging. I have time to judge 3 times for the duration of the trinket.
0.43x156=67 0.43x198=85 0.43x204=88 67+85+88=240 min. 169+240=409 max.187+240=427

Results: 346 - 359 - 342 - 357 - 353 - 348
Conclusion: I decided to stop there, since waiting for ZHC CD and applying only 3 Judges per try is not fun, but You can clearly see there's atleast 60 damage missing. :puke:


5. Full Build, Gear, ZHC, JotC, Sanctity Aura scenario ( A.K.A. my day2day damage loss)

409-427 Judges + 10% = approx. 450-460 Judges.

Results: 364 - 376 - 370 (having Vengeance - 409).


So that is for Judgement of Command, I decided not to apply Flask of Supreme Power or Greater Arcane Elixirs to the numbers but I might as well have to do it sometime to check if "buffed" SPD works as intended.

As some of You may roll eyes and /sigh at this thread, and say that missing 100 damage is probably nothing, I must remind You of the fact that JoC has it's own unique avalanche effect. These 100 points of damage grow to 200 when stunned and then 400 if it's a critical on a stunned target. As I only judge if my target is stunned/incapacitated I the damage difference is twice as big as it seems.

Now let's roll to the second part of the post! :gone:

Seal of Command proccs

Gives the Paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage equal to 70% of normal weapon damage.

What is not mentioned in the in-game tooltip is the unique mechanic this skill has and because of which it is often misunderstood. Intended to be our main offensive skill, giving us a sad imitation of the warrior's heroic strike having not nearly as many proccs per minute as the HS itself or the same damage. The only good thing about Seal of Command is that it actually does scale. Oh, and I forgot, it's Seal of Casino after all, so every procc You get is a real deal by itself. :jump2:



So - How does SoC scale exactly?

70% of you weapon damage! No, not the real weapon damage You see on the tooltip of your sword or mace. The actualy Weapon Damage beneath your tiny gayass virtual reality avatar. Yup. What does that mean? It means that on a slow weapon like mine (3.80 Speed), every 4 points of AP bring you 1 point of Weapon Damage, in other words = 0.7 points of Seal of Command procc damage.

So. Maths time! 6 AP = 3 Str = 1 point of SoC procc damage

Then blizzard decided to add holiness to the whole swinging and beating action and added Spell Damage in the calculation and a very unique modifier based on the "LACK OF FUCKIN HOLY SPELL DAMAGE ITEMS" part of the game.


20% Seal of Command
29% Seal of Command (only with +holy damage bonuses)

Explained on human tongue, that means You get a coefficient of 0.2 for normal +Spell Damage and Healing and a overwhelming 0.29% on +Holy Spell Damage.

Where do You get Holy SPD? Your Judgement of the Crusader is one place. I think there's one or two items in the entire game as well... And they suck. :party:

Numbers incoming

1. Checking if the 70% weapon damage works correctly - Yup.
No gear, unarmed.
Weapon damage = 57. 0.7x57=39
Results: 39 - 39 - 39 - 39 - 39 - 39 - 39 - 39

2. Now this is an interesting part - when we apply JotC while unarmed we come across a big surprise - it appears that +damage from all spell sources is applied according to your weapon speed, just like for SoR.
Unarmed + JotC (+198)
Results: 47 - 47 - 47 - 47 - 47 - 47 - 47 - 47
Damage increase = 8.


3. The Unstoppable Force (3.80 atack speed) - No gear - Wep DMG test
Wep DMG = approx. 260 (values lower and higher than that)
Results: 236 - 286 - 253 - 263

4. TUF (3.80 AS) + JotC (+198 HOLY spd)
Maths: 0.29x198=57 260+57=317 approx. dmg (lower and higher)
Results: 340 - 336 - 315 - 291 - 262 - 326 - 365 - 349 - 294 :party:
min. 262 - max. 365

5. TUF (3.80 AS) + Zandalarian Hero Charm (+204 SPD)
Maths: 0.20x204=40 260+40=300 approx. dmg (lower and higher)
Results: 290 - 308 - 294 - 240 - 317 - 253 - 226 - 236 - 250 - 242 - 221 - 234
min. 221 - max. 317


6. TUF (3.80 AS) + ZHC (+204 SPD) + JotC (+198 Holy)
Maths: 0.20x204=40 0.29x198=57 40+57=97 260+97=357 approx. dmg (lower and higher)
Results: 350 - 292 - 313 - 302 - 358 - 344 - 264 - 312
min. 264 - max. 358

6. TUF (3.80 AS) + SPD Gear (+156 SPD + 178 AP) - total AP = 624 - weapon damage increased up to 365-490
Maths: 0.70x365=255 0.70x490=343 Base Procc DMG: 255-343 0.20x156 SPD=31
Approx. theoretical DMG: 286-374
Results: 305 - 300 - 258 - 268 - 285 - 283 - 267 - 304 - 341 - 320 - 298
min. 258 - max. 341 (Take notice of the Base Procc DMG - the same)

7. TUF (3.80 AS) + AP Gear (+178 AP) - total AP 624 - weapon damage increased up to 365-490
Maths: 0.70x365=255 0.70x490=343 Base Procc DMG: 255-343 NO SPELL DAMAGE
Results: 306 - 317 - 261 - 327 - 381 - 256 - 263 - 312 - 315 - 277 - 282 - 298
min.256 - max. 381


That's it. You make the conclusions. From 6. and 7. it's obvious spell damage from gear does not even exist in the mechanics of the spell.
I also must add that I believe that Atack Speed SPD coefficient scaling WAS NOT a part of Seal of Command mechanism since it makes no sense. After all, the slower the weapons are - the more weapon damage they do, and the more damage would be given to the procc from those 70%.
That means that currently on rebirth with faster weapons You not only get less base weapon damage (x70%) but also less spell damage from Your JotC.

My 2 cents? The procc +spd value from normal spell power is currently 0 and not 0.20!
As You can see the damage with or without spell damage gear, with or without ZHC is still the same. The only factor that increases the procc dmg is JotC and it's not in an accurate way.

Special thanks to Wyke for being an awesome dude and encouraging me to do this thread, not like that gayass GM three years ago who told me that my spd coeficients are imaginary, and when I asked him to test out Holy Shock values he told me to go respecc and do it myself.

I might actually respecc to check how broken is our other damaging ability. Since... You know - we only have 3.

That's all for now, folks.

P.S.Give Paladins a stormstrike-like spell with +20% Damage increase on your next Holy Damage Ability and we're balanced. GG Blizz, you guys should pay me, retards.
Last edited by hammered on Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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hammered
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Re: Seal of Command/Judge of Command still not working. data.

Postby hammered » Sun May 22, 2016 5:49 pm

Can I get any feedback if my calculations are correct and if this is being looked into?
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Kainnee
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Re: Seal of Command/Judge of Command still not working. data.

Postby Kainnee » Sun May 22, 2016 6:07 pm

Go heal.

=P
aka Zerkee on Horde.
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hammered
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Re: Seal of Command/Judge of Command still not working. data.

Postby hammered » Sun May 29, 2016 5:41 pm

still waiting for a fucking response
Bearwithme
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Re: Seal of Command/Judge of Command still not working. data.

Postby Bearwithme » Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:44 pm

Posting to add my concern for this topic. Also adding that Seal of Command currently does not currently proc off on hit effects such as Halberd of Smiting decapitate. This issue is really integral to playing ret and I really would like to have it addressed!
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Zardian
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Re: Seal of Command/Judge of Command still not working. data.

Postby Zardian » Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:18 pm

Halberd proc isnt an autoattack.
Better known as Stromgar nowadays
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hammered
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Re: Seal of Command/Judge of Command still not working. data.

Postby hammered » Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:46 pm

It definately shares hit tables with the mellee auto-attack since it can get missed/parried/dodged.
Also prior to patch 1.9 (AQ) it could procc off itself, which verifies the opinion it is a physical ability capable of proccing proccs, but not the same procc as itself. Proccaprocc.


Ref: http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/16/wow- ... -ahnqiraj/
The proc ability of the Halberd of Smiting can no longer cause another proc.

("another" in other words "same", since according to wowhead comments, it really got nerfed to not procc 2 times from a single attack.)
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hammered
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Re: Seal of Command/Judge of Command still not working. data.

Postby hammered » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:23 am

bump till a bloody gm/dev says hi
Rafale
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Re: [BUG] Seal of Command/Judge of Command still not working. data.

Postby Rafale » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:03 pm

I think you need to be more specific in the conclusion and tell GMs what they need to change exactly. Btw, i support !
Avidan
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Re: [BUG] Seal of Command/Judge of Command still not working. data.

Postby Avidan » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:08 pm

First of all, thanks to Hammered for spending time outlining this issue. I hope this gets addressed soon.

Hammered is clearly saying that the spell damage bonus for core retribution paladin spells aren't working as they did in 1.12.1 retail wow.
For example he spends most of his post explaining how the spell damage bonus of the 70% weapon damage proc from Seal of Command isn't implemented, or if it is, then it doesn't work.
This is (one of the things) he wants fixed.

Examples #7 and #8 pretty clearly illustrates that the SoC proc gets NO spell damage bonus from gear, since the hits should be roundabout 30 dmg higher, since 20% of 156 SP is 31.2 SP.

Retribution paladins are widely disliked and even hated by the majority and so it's not surprising that we don't get much attention from the development side of things. I don't blame anyone, but it's just sad.



PS: Hammered have you done any tests on the SP bonus of Consecration? I've yet to have amassed a decent amount of SP gear, but I'm interested in your input.

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